War in Iraq

[Sothe]

I am a Republican, I think war can be necessary, I like our president, sort of, but I disaprove of this endless and pointless war, as far as what was said in Page 1 about all wars being pointless, no, they aren't WW2 and the Civil war are both wonderful examples of wars with a purpose. However one like this, which is not only pointless but seemingly endless is dumb.

[Kiroshima]

Don't make me start on Communism, it isn't ideal and it isn't that it "would" work if without corruption; because everyone is the same, there is no growth for those with potential, while those without potential (due to will or not) get benefits.  Communism hamstrings those who work to climb to the top, although I won't say those at the top are good people all the time, the point remains the same.  No one climbs, everyone stays at the bottom.  It is impossible to raise the bottom up, not in this world.

About the War in Iraq, it seems like another Vietnam.  We never shoulda got involved, but once we did, we were forced to stay, resulting in a loss for the U.S.  THIS IS a lose-lose situation now. 

Actually, we have access to plenty of oil, however, the companies refuse to process it because it is more "crude" and has more other stuff in it.  However, if they DID bother to process it, we'd have a good source.  They just don't want to pay the "now" money and prefer to drain people's dollars, till the veeeeeeery last drop of oil. 

If terrorists get an earthquake weapon, thats it, game over countries of the world.  The end, thats all folks, etc.

Also, if you kill the little kid, the little kid doesn't fight anymore xD.  Sometimes...getting rid of the root of the problem, eliminates the problem.  If dig up/chop up a tree's roots, it isn't going to do too well.  Although, yes it may sound harsh, this is what won the Civil War.  It is a tactic called Total War.  You wage war against everything the enemy owns, is, fights for. 

WWII was not a war with a purpose, it was a war to fight against a madman trying to conquer the world after using the mistakes made by his enemies years before in the Treaty of Versailles.  Shoulda listened to Wilson a bit more... (I don't like him though, but his ideas would've helped here, making Germany more friendly)  I agree about Civil War though, preserve the Union, because we must "Unite or die."

Counter as you see fit.  I think I got everything recent...

[Sothe]

Yes destroying the enemy won the Civil War WW II was NOT any of ou business until Japan bombed us. And Communism sucks.

[Kiroshima]

Well...we kinda made them drop the bomb on us...We weren't exactly nice guys back then.  We were economic imperialists, and we wanted China for ourselves, not Japan.  Ironic how advantageous we would be if we HAD let Japan invade/conquer China.  We take out a hugely corrupted communist society, thats for sure!

[Sothe]

^ That's true.

[PhoenixTears]

Don't make me start on Communism, it isn't ideal and it isn't that it "would" work if without corruption; because everyone is the same, there is no growth for those with potential, while those without potential (due to will or not) get benefits.  Communism hamstrings those who work to climb to the top, although I won't say those at the top are good people all the time, the point remains the same.  No one climbs, everyone stays at the bottom.  It is impossible to raise the bottom up, not in this world.

=/ Yet, this is what eventually makes me hate communism and communistic ideas. The fact that no one else agrees. I always thought of myself as individualistic, but really, I'm just following the flow.
Yeah, it's no fun if there isn't anyone to support you.
But really? Is communism that bad? I mean the IDEAL communism. Just the idea of it. Not the one that exists in our society as a result of... being in this world, but living as an idea? Why is it so bad to say that people are equal? And that people own nothing? That's what I've had the most problems with this world, that fact, that ONE fact, that people possess objects.
I mean, would slavery have ever been a problem then? (Well, yes, it could have. It probably would have.)
Yes, communism doesn't work in the real world. Yes, it only exists as an idea. But that doesn't keep a girl from dreaming, eh?

Yeah... my problem is that when teachers teach a curriculum on history, whether it's world history or American history, they'll start at the beginning, and then they'll realize they can't get to the end of the curriculum by the end of the year. So they skip about ten units in between and get along to World War II and antisemitism. I mean, we learn it EVERY FREAKING YEAR. What about Vietnam? World War I? How come we don't learn those?
Well, I just learned in American Lit class recently because we had this unit on the book 'The Things They Carried' by Tim O'Brien. It's about Nam. And I realized that it's EXTREMELY similar to what the US is doing now in Iraq. (Not the same, since we initiated it this time).
... Brush up on your history Bush.

A War with a purpose? You believe that exists? Wars exist because humans exist. Because people have emotions and little feelings that are crushed so easily and hard to build. (Or in terms of bad feelings, we'll say built from those feelings that were crushed.) And it's because we think that our beliefs, our ideals are always correct, that the other person standing over there is wrong, and that people should live by OUR thinking. It's the "Me first" society.
I find something very wrong with that. No seriously. And you'll probably find it funny, that I find it wrong. Because then you're saying, "Oh, that's your opinion. You're contradicting yourself." Well, go ahead. I'm not going to force you to believe my words. Heck, because I'm just living by MY rules. Aren't we all? We take those things that we want to be the truth, or what is forced to be the truth, and live by them. So funny. And you know what? If a majority of the people out there come to believe something, society adjusts. Guess what? People can manipulate others that way. Oh gee. And then that's how Wars start. They start over stupid little things that... Geez.
>_> Okay. So I can't explain. I can only rant. But oh well. Get the general idea?

[Stefan the SwordSaint]

you sound like a twisted fictional character I know 

[PhoenixTears]

you sound like a twisted fictional character I know 

A twisted fictional character?
Geez, we're all twisted you know.
And who knows? We are technically fictional. I mean, how is this even reality?

[Stefan the SwordSaint]

Because we have to watch the car ride.

(BTW the fictional character was The Doctor from Doctor Who if you've ever heard of it.... so I guess in a way that was also a compliment.  In a way)

[Kiroshima]

Lol, the Doctor?  Nice.  Timelord O_o.   But how is he twisted?  I think he has a unique perspective that allows him to make better decisions than someone from the normal timeline.

Ideal communism without corruption still is bad because of the same reason:  It hamstrings those who make an effort, because even with all that effort, they are forced to stay at the same level as those who don't, or can't, make an effort. 

It's like homeless people.  There are some, due to various circumstances, just CAN'T earn money, and therefore require aid from the gov't.  But there are others, who refuse<--- to work, and yet the gov't still provides aid. Why?  I don't know, it doesn't make any sense.  Those people who refuse to make themselves better shouldn't drag down those who wish to step up.  The world is a lifeboat, nothing more, and there are only those who sink, or get on top.  Unfortunately, because of the way things work today, we're bring the lifeboat to the people who sink, which will sooner or later, result in the sinking of the lifeboat.  This means:  Everyone loses.

Try AP classes.  My AP US History did quite well, we covered EVERY chapter excluding 1 and 2 and a few at the very most recent events.  We got all the way up to Clinton, in decent accuracy.  AP history classes are the way to go, you'll learn stuff you might not normally get or notice in normal history classes.  Plus, they are a better environment, you don't have to deal with the idiots who are just there because it is required, who often disrupt class in a multitude of ways.  (Additional benefit yayz)

Guess what, Iraq IS EXACTLY like Vietnam.  We shouldn't be there, but we went anyways, got stuck, and can't get out without serious losses/ loss of face.  Not that I care about face values, but the gov't likes its pride.  Only different thing is that we are "fighting" terrorists, not communists, on a desert, not a jungle.  They use similar styles of tactics of sneaking about in a landscape we have little knowledge of, and then ambush our troops, from roofs or from trees, same thing.  I get the feeling Iraq WILL be another Vietnam...

[PhoenixTears]

Guess what, Iraq IS EXACTLY like Vietnam.  We shouldn't be there, but we went anyways, got stuck, and can't get out without serious losses/ loss of face.  Not that I care about face values, but the gov't likes its pride.  Only different thing is that we are "fighting" terrorists, not communists, on a desert, not a jungle.  They use similar styles of tactics of sneaking about in a landscape we have little knowledge of, and then ambush our troops, from roofs or from trees, same thing.  I get the feeling Iraq WILL be another Vietnam...

Basically.
Cept, Nam was started over something else. The US didn't start Nam.

Why is ideal communism corrupt if it can only exist in a world where there are no corrupt humans? =D

D= I have to take AP calc next year. That's going to suck hard.

[Stefan the SwordSaint]

Lol, the Doctor?  Nice.  Timelord O_o.   But how is he twisted?  I think he has a unique perspective that allows him to make better decisions than someone from the normal timeline.

No I said PT seems like a twisted Doctor.   I agree he has a unique perspective

In ideal communism, everyone tries there hardest BTW, Kiro.  However thats why ideal communism is impossible.  Not everyone will work there hardest.
(Im taking AP US history next year *gulp*)

[Leonri]

Communism may not work but Capatilism sure as hell dosen't either. Humanity has yet to find a truly democratic system of government.

The important difference between 'Nam and Iraq is that Nam was stopped by public action. Those millions of bags of rice with the legend "drop this on Vietnam, not bombs" really scared the government. Do you think that will happen here?
Also the media had a huge effect, portraying all the atrocities inflicted by the soldiers. In Iraq they're highly restricted and banned from going to many places there. Have you noticed how hard it is to find out facts about it? Especially about civilians dying...   

[Kiroshima]

Yes, Capatilism sure is annoying too, ESPECIALLY free free trade.  Seriously, big businesses just move out of a country to a country with EXTREMELY cheap, but poor, labor, like China.  Many US businesses move to China, get laborers who are payed like 1 cent an hour (may be an exaggeration, or not), and then sell the lousy product for inflated prices.  Seriously, if we had a tariff, they'd come straight back home, and give people here proper wages, or at least that is what the effect is supposed to be.

Well, since the extremists like to disguise their operatives as civilians, it's a problem of who to shoot and who not to shoot.  Unfortunately, they shouldn't risk soldiers on figuring it out, let someone else sort the casualties out, rather than risk the lives of our own soldiers.  Yes, this is harsh too.  War...is harsh.  War is hell.  That is the nature of War.