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So Mario is apparently top tier in Brawl.

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Author Topic: So Mario is apparently top tier in Brawl.  (Read 610 times)
A2ZOMG
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« on: January 14, 2008, 11:06:07 pm »

He deserves it IMO 'cause he's Mr. Nintendo.  What do you think? I say best news ever. =)

Quote from: Gimpyfish62; Moderator of SWF
Mario is back and is better than we've ever seen him in smash before. Most of you have probably already heard, Mario is very good in Brawl from what we experienced. Mario has got all the combo potential he had in Melee and more. His range overall seems increased, his speed is definitely above average, his killing potential has gone up and he's got good throw setups on every character that was in the demo. But with all of these buffs and improvements, what area does Mario now struggle in? Well, to be perfectly honest, there wasn't really any area that Mario could've used much help in. Mario in most games is your all around good but not great kind of character, well this time, Mario is your all around great character. He really seems to have it all this time.

Mario's combo game is very familiar, it's very similar to Mario's combos in Melee. Down throws, up airs, up tilts, up smashes and the like to keep them up, with neutrals and smashes as some of the finishers. Mario has a good air game. He seems to have more range and priority this time around. His combo moves are basically the same, but they seem to be even easier to combo with. His airs have more hit stun than most moves did from what we saw in the Brawl demo, his neutral appears to have more range and a bit more knock back, his back air is just like Mario's was in Melee. Mario's forward air received a nice change. When Mario's fist is above him and moving forward it does a lot of killing knock back, similar to Doc's forward air from Melee, but after it goes past the horizontal mark and starts moving down it acts as a spike. This is a nice feature to have, one of the problems that Mario used to have was that he didn't have a lot of options when it came to kill moves, but this among other things seems to really help with that. Mario's down air changed a lot in this game. His down air is Mario's old down B from the other games. The moves has some nice combo potential and pops them up at the end, it also has almost no lag whatsoever after it is done. This does NOT help your recovery though, it doesn't change your momentum in any way, you cannot do a rising tornado anymore.

So Mario's air game is just as combo oriented, but how about his smashes? Well, obviously they are still good, its hard to find a bad quality about Mario at this point. His down smash is virtually the same, it does similar knock back at more or less the same speed, but it seems to have a little bit more range. Mario's forward smash does the same knock back and seems easier to sweet spot, or maybe there is not actual sweet spot to the move anymore, I never saw it land a weak hit at least. Unfortunately this move seems to be a little bit slower, and doesn't have quite as much range as it did in Melee. This may be the ONLY thing about Mario that was nerfed. I'm unsure if Mario's up smash actually has invincibly frames in Brawl, but it sure seems like it did at times. It may just have a good buff to priority in this game. At lower percentages this move seems to combo well, but at higher percentages its a good kill move. The knock back seems to scale really nicely on this move.

Mario's special moves have seen a few changes. Mario's up b has been improved for a few reasons. First it seems to do more knock back and it hits with every strike of the up b more often so its safer. Second this move has a LOT less land lag. When Mario does his up b and lands on the ground he lands on his back then just pops himself back up quickly and you are ready to go. Much less land lag, and that is very useful for his recovery. Third the move just seems improved in general because of the new sweet spot mechanics. Mario can grab backwards and even mid jump, which is GREAT for his recovery, which some people considered to be one of his weaknesses in Melee. Mario's cape is back yet again, it does help his recovery, but it fades after the first use in the air, just like in Melee. The cape has the same "turn around" feature as it did in Melee as far as I remember. Mario's down b move has changed into something completely new. A lot of the competitive players saw a lot of potential in this move when it was announced. There is no hit stun and it can be aimed, so we figured it would be an amazing edge guard. When E for All actually came and we got our chance to play our opinions on this move changed. The move (at least in our four day tests) seemed to not have any kind of realistic applications. FLUDD does no damage, and does no "real" knock back. Think of the wind effect in Melee and 64, that is essentially what this does; it simply pushes the character a small distance. This move can be charged and do more pushback, but we simply didn't see the need to apply it or see any possible uses for it. FLUDD will require more time to understand its possible uses, but for now it seems almost useless. FLUDD can be used in the air and you can keep it out for as long as you want from what we saw. The last special move is Mario's fireballs. They work a lot like they did in Melee, but it looks like they come out a little bit faster, otherwise they mostly the same.

Mario has it all in Brawl. He is plenty fast; he has great, effective, and easy combos; he has a lot of KO potential; he has good edge guarding; he has a reasonably good projectile of his own, and he is difficult to edge guard. Mario, from what we saw, was likely the best character shown at the demo - at least, at the level we were playing the game. He also has an awesome new Fire Mario costume, one of my favorites. Mario fans rejoice, he is better than his Melee counterpart in every respect.
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Stefan the SwordSaint
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 05:12:17 am »

Well that doesn't make him top tier but, interesting.
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 10:31:56 am »

Yeah, I posted a post containing that earlier... Stefan didn't like it  Tongue

Oh yeah, it was from SWF...
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 02:11:41 pm »

Yeah, I posted a post containing that earlier... Stefan didn't like it  Tongue

Oh yeah, it was from SWF...
hmmm No, the one I think your thinking of I like, that guy was basing it off the demo, the other one I didn't hate or anything...just said it meant nothing =P
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 05:21:24 pm »

Well this person isn't the only person to say Mario is really good.  I've heard scattered reports to this effect.  IMO, Mario if anybody deserves to be the most formidable fighter in Brawl, because he's really the first character that comes to mind when you say "Nintendo".

Sorry, did I post this in the wrong forum?
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 05:30:26 pm »

No, this is the right place. I haven't felt like reading that whole thing but I will eventually.
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 05:33:45 pm »

Here is fine, but later post in general gaming.

True, but he's also suppose to be all- around type, good but not perfect.  Top Teir characters are ,in melee atleast, real good in one area but not the greatest in another.

I still won't use Mario.
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 06:55:27 pm »

Eh.... when people say nintendo, I think of a gamecube. =3

Hmm... interesting news about mario... will they be doing things for Luigi?
And no offense to mario, I just... don't really like him. I mean, come on. He's fat, all he can say is Mario! or things like Let's go!... and he's always wearing the same clothes.

He's pretty cool as a video game character though. =P
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 06:58:45 pm »

Lol, yea DS and I had a discussion about how Mario never speaks.  In Papar Mario he's 'the SILENT protagonist'
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 02:46:37 am »

And no offense to mario, I just... don't really like him. I mean, come on. He's fat, all he can say is Mario! or things like Let's go!... and he's always wearing the same clothes.

He's pretty cool as a video game character though. =P
You see, those are common misconceptions of Mario.  Mario for one is NOT fat.  He's really really short and stocky. Anybody who's seen one of the more realistic portrayals of Mario right now, he's simply not fat at all (the cartoon type Mario is rounded off like most other characters, which may make him look fat, but that's a cartoon).  Fat would be Wario on the other hand.  Next point, watch this video. Because Charles Martinet is too good.


But yeah, he's always wearing that cap and overalls. <_<

And actually, I heard an interesting theory on why characters are top tier. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=136872  5150 from SWF says in Melee, the focus was making three character types that play rock paper scissors with each other (speed, power, and control. Control is projectile spamming with Link), but due to some oversights in metagame, characters like Fox and Sheik ended up having strong qualities from all three categories.  Basically, they ended up creating some characters like Mario, balanced in all fields, except for the part they are on steroids.

If anyone deserves to be that kind of character, it absolutely should be Mario himself, who is by far Nintendo's most important character, and I believe he deserves to be respected in a sense by being given a very strong metagame.
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 07:26:41 am »

that guy was basing it off the demo, the other one I didn't hate or anything...just said it meant nothing =P
Well, the source is very reliable... And the demo is the best way of making up your mind if the game isn't out.
Lol, yea DS and I had a discussion about how Mario never speaks.  In Papar Mario he's 'the SILENT protagonist'
We've had quite a few discussions and arguements, just like the Krystal/Wolf one...

I don't think Mario will be top tier, he might reach high tear, but you know Mario is Mario. He is the regular guy in every game.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 08:38:19 am »

I think it is incredibly possible he is going to be top tier when after all, not only Gimpyfish, the top Bowser player is saying this, but various scattered reports say Mario is incredibly good. The only truly balanced characters, as 5150 says in that link I posted, were in fact the top tier characters (Mario can't kill, has horrible range, and has bad recovery, which are hugely unbalancing weaknesses).  Seeing how Mario is the only veteran character to be reported to improve in EVERY category with no nerfs (now he can kill, has good range, and has REALLY GOOD recovery), where as other returning characters are receiving scattered improvements and nerfs, Mario basically has become all-round better than average, which is exactly what the top tier characters were like in Melee.  These are important qualities for Mario to have if he's supposed to also be considered as the beginners-friendly character.
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 10:40:15 am »

=3
Nice comeback for mario. But i'm a more... Kirby person.

I still say he's fat. =P
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 10:45:38 am »

Mario might have gotten better, I doubt he will do really well in competitions...

Good Mario's a nice change though.
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2008, 02:33:43 pm »

that guy was basing it off the demo, the other one I didn't hate or anything...just said it meant nothing =P
Well, the source is very reliable... And the demo is the best way of making up your mind if the game isn't out.
Lol, yea DS and I had a discussion about how Mario never speaks.  In Papar Mario he's 'the SILENT protagonist'
We've had quite a few discussions and arguements, just like the Krystal/Wolf one...

I don't think Mario will be top tier, he might reach high tear, but you know Mario is Mario. He is the regular guy in every game.
Its not reliable because its just an opinion.  Those people may very well be in, but you can't use it as a scource.
Haha yes....
I agree, just the regular guy...
And I'm sure there are going to be other characters like that a2zomg...
And he isn't fat nor stocky...he's chubby=P.
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